Lena Dunham Just Made The Most Sense About The Woody Allen Debacle

March 18th, 2014 // 61 Comments
Classy, ScarJo, Real Classy
Scarlett Johansson
Scarlett Defends Woody Allen Read More »

While Scarlett Johansson insured there’ll be an Oscar-worthy project down the road the for her by defending Woody Allen to The Guardian, Lena Dunham has made the most surprisingly profound remarks to Marc Maron about the alleged molestation of Dylan Farrow and how that should reflect on Woody Allen’s art. So while you read that, I’ll be in the corner trying to convince myself we all didn’t die on Malaysia Flight 370 and this is the island’s way of fucking with us. Via HuffPost:

The “Girls” star previously tweeted her support for Dylan Farrow, Allen’s adopted daughter, after The New York Times in February published an open letter by Farrow about alleged sexual abuse by Allen. However, Dunham told Maron that she is “not comfortable living in a world where art is part of how we convict people of crimes.”
“I’m not gonna indict the work,” she added. “I think that you can decide that you don’t want to support the work of somebody who has molested a child. That’s a completely appropriate choice. But going through it and saying, ‘Look, he’s told us in 57 ways that he rapes kids.’ That’s not the thing. The thing is to look at the actual evidence that exists in the world, which I think strongly suggests that Woody Allen is in the wrong.”
Maron mentioned that someone had tweeted at him, saying they are now “nauseated” by Allen’s artistic work. Dunham responded, “I’m nauseated with the person.”
“People who really believe Woody Allen is guilty have not felt comfortable saying that because they’re so afraid to lose their connection to his work,” she said. “And the thing is, I feel like people need to understand that you can hold two positions in your mind. You can know that someone’s made work that’s meaningful to you and also know that they have most likely molested their daughter.”

Okay, now I feel sort of bad about calling Lena Dunham a squishy rhombus (Leave Yellow Grimace out of this.), but not bad enough to watch Girls. It’s not like she gave me a kidney. Let’s not get carried away.

Photos: Getty

superficial

  1. yeah, profound. that’s the word I would use.

  2. “This eye is a vagina, because I can see out of my vagina, because feminism.”

  3. TheJoaker

    Ok, but which girl has better tits? You need to learn to ask the right questions, Fish.

  4. I was sure I still had some fucks around here to give about Lena Dunham’s opinion.
    *rustle, rustle*
    Nope, looks like I’m fresh out.

  5. Kimmykimkim

    Her flabby biceps sicken me. That is all.

  6. Yes, words of wisdom but the god awful tat, the cheap painting she ripped off the frame to wear and the show “Girls.” + and – = 0

  7. If the evidence suggests that he’s in the wrong why is he a free man? The law isn’t perfect, but their a hell of a lot more accurate on cases like these than Lena Dunham.

    • Polk

      Because the legal standard is the criminal “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard, and not the civil “preponderance of the evidence” standard.

      A prosecutor needs evidence. When the victim is child, it needs to be strong physical evidence, as it is very difficult to convict on the testimony of a child. Because child molestation often goes unreported after the molestation, physical evidence usually doesn’t exist.

      • That’s a perfectly acceptable explanation.

      • Actually, he didn’t get even get to trial because the investigators in Connecticorrupt didn’t want to upset him. I am not able to accurately judge his guilt or innocence, and I fully realize that, but much of what I have read in local media (near where it did/didn’t happen) makes it clear that no one wanted to be the one to disrupt or upset Mr. Allen regarding these allegations. To hell with the kid and her half-psychotic mother.

        There are no winners here.

    • Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson and R. Kelly never went to prison just to name a few of the many child molesters out there so I am not sure what your point is?

      • You saw the part where I said the law isn’t perfect right? Or are you trying to pick up where you left off yesterday? Why don’t you show me a felony that has a 100% conviction rate.

      • Pickup from yesterday where I said you are defending a pedophile, well yes I am. How exactly is the law more perfect and accurate just because he is a free man? Your implication is that because the law failed to or refused to charge him with a crime that somehow we should accept that he is not a sexual deviant and I disagree.

        I bet if your dad called you up and told you he was leaving your mom for his buddy’s daughter that he knew since she was 10 years old you would not sit around going “yeah dad, that is fucking cool, go for it, you are the man, she is legal, it is all good”.

        The more perfect and accurate than Lena Dunham law has also put away and killed dozens upon dozens of innocent people over the years also.

        You made an absolute statement that the law is not perfect or accurate but it is more perfect and accurate than Lena Dunham is, care to back that statement up with actual facts? Are you that familiar or well versed in case law regarding child molestation that you are qualified to make that conclusion?

      • Is Lena familiar or well versed in case law regarding child molestation? Are you? I’m not. I made my statement that the law is more accurate than Lena because she is not involved in the case in anyway.

        She has not seen or examined the evidence etc. Therefore all her statements are guesswork. The officers of the law involved in this case have done so and therefore they are more informed than she is. No conviction was made, therefore in the eyes of the law he is an innocent man.

        In the court of public opinion, he has always been and will always be guilty. That’s how people think. If Dylan were to recant her statements right now it would change nothing. In the eyes of the public any man accused of any sexual crime is guilty until proven innocent and guilty even after being proven innocent. This mentality has also lead to it’s fair share of innocent men being killed by vigilante justice etc.

        If my father said he was going to marry a woman he’s known since she was 10, I’d have no problem with it at all. If the woman is now a legal adult, capable of making her own well informed decisions, then she has the right to marry whomever she chooses. Whether I, or you, or anybody else thinks it’s creepy doesn’t matter. If they can get married according to the law, they can go right ahead. I understand where you’re coming from on this, but this is not illegal once the girl is an adult.

        What is sexual deviance? Ask 100 people, you’ll get 100 different answers. Some would say anal/oral sex is sexually deviant. Some would say interracial sex is deviant. Where does it end?

        We can argue all day, but the bottom line is none of us here know what happened that day. Only Dylan and Woody know.

      • Mellllzy

        When I was 16 my father (36 at the time) decided to take up with one of my best friends, also 16. It was legal (in Australia), yet, that didn’t make it feel any more right. It was not cool. I was not cool with it. Years after, she was not cool with it. It was gross and predatory. You can’t say you would be cool with the situation if you have not been in it.

        I am very liberal when it comes to personal choices. Although it’s not my particular bent, I even think brothers and sisters should be able to get married because it’s none of my business what grown people capable of consent want to do.

        But, what Woody did with Soon Yi and what my father did with my friend, well, in my opinion it is wrong. I was living it, I understood the power dynamics. Even though we all thought at that age we were so cool and grown up, we were’t. A grown man shouldn’t want to date a girl still wearing a school uniform.

      • Dox

        What is sexual deviance? Ask 100 people, you’ll get 100 different answers. Some would say anal/oral sex is sexually deviant. Some would say interracial sex is deviant. Where does it end?

        Don. The yardstick I use, and I admit I am a little bizarre, is simple. If by engaging in a relationship, particularly of a sexual nature, I could cause harm to an individual’s unformed psyche, then I make every attempt not take advantage of that person.

        The list of people I avoid sleeping with for those reasons alone includes, but is not limited to: Children, people with developmental disabilities, women that I have been in a position of authority over or currently am in a position authority over, women who have suffered severe distress and turn to me for support, any woman under the age of 30, any women that are in desperate need of attention, any woman that wears a furry mascot outfit at any point during their offtime, that is not employed by a professional sports team, women whose hobby is researching serial killers, women with more than four nipples, three arms, three legs, or a prehensile tail.

        As you can see, it is a somewhat eclectic list, however, and I cant stress this enough… there is never an excuse to take advantage of an individual that is younger and less formed than you, by entering into a lopsided relationship in which their thoughts, desires, and dreams are sublimated by your own. And that, is what Woody Allen does at the least. This is not about sexual deviancy, so much as it is about predatory behavior and history of. So feel free to defend it all you like, it doesn’t change the fact that Allen has a repeated history of predatory behavior. And that makes him suspect at the least.

      • Everything on your list is on mine, Dox. But the only evidence that we have that Woody took advantage of Soon-Yi is their age difference and that’s not evidence at all.

        None of us know the nature of their relationship, people only assume it’s predatory because of the age difference but we don’t know that. I prefer not to guess. He didn’t commit any crime, so I won’t treat him like a criminal. His relationship with Soon-Yi didn’t start until she was an adult. Like I said before, they barely knew each other before that point. So much so that Mia had to encourage them to get to know each other better.

      • Yo, Don Zaloog…I’ve seen that girl your dad has known since she was 10, and she’s really not that hot. Nice tits, tho.

      • Ted Nugent, Jerry Lee Lewis, Errol Flynn, Jimmy Savile, the guy who managed the backstreet boys and nsync

    • JC

      The statute of limitations on child sexual abuse cases can also prevent prosecution. For example, you have to prosecute a child molestation case in Pennsylvania within 12 years of the incident. After that, if the person hasn’t been charged, they’re never going to be charged.

  8. Annie

    Woody Allen is so overrated. If you’re an actress defending him, you’re pretty much accepting the fact he’s molested young girls (let’s be honest, there’s more) just to be in his overrated movies that only obnoxious people like. Insane. Lena is speaking out because she doesn’t need him, unlike the rest, but Hollywood is full of perverts. At one point she will try not to piss off the wrong person too.

  9. This is why I eat at Chik-Fil-A. I separate the sandwich from whatever the fuck the sandwich maker does.

  10. JC

    “And the thing is, I feel like people need to understand that you can hold two positions in your mind. You can know that someone’s made work that’s meaningful to you and also know that they have most likely molested their daughter.”

    Yeah, maybe, but she’s also suggesting a level of mental disconnect that people aren’t necessarily capable of. It’s one thing to say, “Yeah, this artist that’s been dead for 100 years was a dick, but I really like his paintings.” It’s another thing to say, “Woody Allen’s movies are awesome, in spite of the fact that he’s probably a child molester, the allegations are current and ongoing, and he puts his Droopy Dog mug in every movie he makes so you can’t divorce him from his work even for a second.”

  11. Lena Dunham
    Hugh G. Rection
    Commented on this photo:

    Lena made perfect sense and gave the most intelligent, reasonable argument I’ve ever heard on the subject. On the other hand, however, Scarlett is hot.

  12. Azerbaijan

    The evidence suggests that Mia Farrow brainwashed and poisoned her kids against Woody Allen. Yeah he married an adopted daughter, which is certainly fucked; but he wasn’t a child molester. But ofcourse the consensus is if you’re deviant enough for one thing, you’re deviant enough for another.

    • Well said. I agree.

    • Azerbaijan, I respectfully disagree. None of us was there, no, we don’t know what happened, but the preponderance of evidence (if you take several hours to read how the Yale process was corrupted with Woody Allen’s money and influence, depositions from nannies, the judge’s 30-page ruling finding Allen an extremely damaged and damaging man, plus Dylan’s own testimony) leads most reasonable people to believe Dylan’s story. I’m not saying you have to believe it. I just researched this pretty exhaustively and came to a different conclusion.

      • Azerbaijan

        Being fucked in the head does NOT inherently make you a child molester. If any of the allegations were true, would MOSES FARROW claim that Dylan’s allegations were Mia Farrow’s doing? “[Dylan] loved him and looked forward to seeing him when he would visit. She never hid from him until our mother succeeded in creating the atmosphere of fear and hate towards him.” and now sees the allegations as “her “vengeful way to pay him back for falling in love with Soon-Yi.”?

        I’m not endorsing the man, it’s definitely fucked; but unless he is convicted as a child molester, I will not claim he is one.

    • Linda

      Azerbaijan, these two types of deviant are the same deviant. It’s not like he has a gambling addiction and we are using that to assume he molested his daughter. We are saying that he had sexual feelings for the daughter of his long-time girlfriend, a child he had known since she her elementary school years. If this was any other man, we’d all be saying there’s evidence of a perv pattern here. But since he’s Woody Allen, he expects a pass. Fuck that shit.

      • Azerbaijan

        “If he’s deviant enough for one thing, he must be deviant enough for another.” Thank you for supporting my point. “Evidence of a perv pattern”. You’re probably the kind of person who thinks gay men shouldn’t be Scout Leaders, because if they’re deviant enough to sleep with men, then they must be capable of fucking a child. Don’t take this as an endorsement of him, he did marry an ADULT woman who was his partner’s adopted daughter. But unless he is convicted of being a child molester, I cannot claim that he is.

      • If the judicial system operated perfectly fairly, in a perfectly fair and just world, I suspect Woody Allen would have been convicted of child molesting. Given the preponderance of evidence, I was curious as to why he was not, which is why I researched this as much as I did. Even today, we see celebrity criminals (mostly white, admittedly) skate for offenses an average person would do hard time for. And yes, Moses Farrow is the only child out of the slew of children who grew up in that home who sides with Woody Allen. Those numbers are a little… unsurprising. But, as I said, we are free to see this differently.

      • Linda

        Yeah, I’m going to go ahead and say that you are awful at persuasive argument. I’m “probably the the kind of person” who thinks that gay people shouldn’t be scout leaders? Since I am neither old nor retarded, I don’t think that. Why would anyone think that a non deviant, non-criminal behavior [i.e. being gay] would be linked to criminal behavior? It’s both insulting and nonsensical.
        Woody Allen knew his wife when she was literally a small child, his girlfriends daughter, watched her grow up, was in a father-role in her life for over a decade. The idea that he suddenly developed sexual feelings for her only when she became of legal age is ridiculous. See how this actual deviant, borderline criminal behavior is linked to another extremely similar deviant, criminal behavior?

  13. Lena Dunham
    Ruckus
    Commented on this photo:

    “It’s simple… we eat the Woody Allen.”

  14. Linda

    Lena rocks. I know it’s hard for you guys to deal with nudity that is not enhanced by starvation and surgery, but you all have to know that she chooses not to make herself look better even with trick lighting and soft lens shots. It’s her show. I may not related to her character or the story, but damned, that girl is brave. And these comments show that she has some integrity and brains too.

    • LOL “hard for you guys to deal with nudity that is not enhanced by starvation and surgery”. Really? You’re so wrapped up in BS you can’t see shit.

      • Linda

        @welldoneson–pretty sure you’re still pissed that I dared to argue against your anti-palestine world view in a previous post. way to continue being predictable!

    • tee

      Although I enjoy the occasional political commentary, this blog is not for women. We’re not welcome here, nor will our views ever be respected. Pajiba is pretty good, you should try it out.

  15. Jahara

    I like his movies, despise him. My conclusion? Illegally download. He profits none.

  16. tom

    Fucking hypocrite hipster.

  17. MZ MIZRY

    just marrying soon-yi after being around her for several years as a somewhat parental figure is all kinds of predator-ish and fucked up.
    fucked up enough that there isnt anything allen could put on film that i would want to take in. srsly.

  18. She later went on to say that she thought Jerry Sandusky’s coaching of outside linebackers was outstanding. No one could show you how to cover a tight-end like him.

  19. I’m perfectly capable of holding two completely different opinions about Woody Allen…they just happen to be the opposite of Lena’s. I don’t believe he molested anyone and I believe his movies are overrated faux artistic crap.

    I’m disappointed that nobody in Hollywood is willing to actually say the words that they’re implying when they “support Woody Allen”. When they say they don’t think the allegations are true, they’re actually saying “we believe Mia Farrow is guilty of one of the ugliest possible attempts to abuse the legal system for her own revenge.

  20. Swearin

    It’s the same situation regarding Michael Jackson’s music and his personal life; the latter sickening if true, but it doesn’t make me enjoy the former less. What it DOES do is make me unfortunately reinterpret the lyrics behind PYT (Pretty Young Things) and The Way You Make Me Feel (and makes Man in the Mirror sadly ironic).

  21. Helena Handbasket

    I can also hold two positions in my mind. Dunham is over-hyped, has little talent, and her show sucks balls. She also has an opinion about Woody Allen & Dylan Farrow that’s no better than anyone else’s, since she wasn’t there.

    See? No problem.

    • Well, if one want’s to look at this matter logically, you weren’t there either, so your opinion on the matter is not worth the time you took to post your irrelevant thoughts.

  22. Oh, great.

    Now that Fish likes Little Miss Voice of a Generation, I guess we’re going to have to endure weekend bursts of her stupid tattoos, and nipply screen-grabs.

  23. beetlerace

    I don’t get why everyone’s so rough on her. No one makes you watch the show, or look at her body. Why does it seem like she’s personally offended everyone by existing? It freaks me out… she seems so normal and fun.

  24. If Soon-Yi takes Woody’s hard penis into her mouth(Yeah, I know…this is just a hypothetical), is it redundant?

  25. Charmed

    Fish is on his soap box again. This time he’s ready to convict a man based on very little evidence & conflicting reports from within the family itself.

    Surely that goes against the liberal position Fish? Or doesn’t it matter when you get to target a sleazy director :O

  26. Ok God Damn it, the standard in this country if you’re good at singing, sports, making movies you can fuck any kid in the country; especially your own. If women don’t like it they can move to Saudi where they have rights! Now who has better tits?

  27. RenderedToast

    No evidence anything happened with Dylan. Mia Farrow is batshit insane, and is a cheat and a liar regarding the father of Ronan, who she had and tried to pass off as Woody’s way before the Soon-Yi thing. You cannot know how she coached Dylan in those early years, and it is very possible to have false memories.

    This is just a moronic Tumblr-feminist who thinks that if a woman says it, it is as good as empirical fact. It isn’t. We’ll never know the truth now, but to outright say Woody Allen is a child molester is basically libel.

  28. She’s trying real hard to give that clothes horse models gaze and the whole glamour thing. Parvenu social riser as well as sociologist and cultural philosopher. As to her convicting Allen based on her hunch, she merely wants to believe it and thus its so. Hollywood magical thinking at its best. Or maybe she was there?

  29. Lena Dunham
    Commented on this photo:

    Let’s look at how many different ways this is wrong:

    1. Lena Dunham owes her entire commercial existence to Woody Allen. Her “comic talent” consists of mimicking Allen’s speech pattern, without the content. If she disapproves of Woody Allen, she should protest by ceasing to exist.
    2. The “facts” as Dunham refers to them, is that there is no substantive evidence that Allen molested his children. Don’t let that get in the way of an empty-headed narcissist trying to sound insightful.
    3. Marc Maron, like Dunham, has chosen the Judd Apatow school of comedy, and has decided to market himself as a Seth Rogen-like teddy bear. Both Maron and Dunham constipate any real comedy, with their own “cutesdy.”
    4. Lena Dunham is an insipid, narcissistic behemoth who continues to believe that if the camera just focuses on 1/5 of her face, then she’s “totally hot.” She is a complete embarrassment, representative of nothing but money and ego, and is part of the disgusting “Apatowization” of comedy. Let’s see how long before she starts doing “Depends” ads.

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