Do you believe in god?

[billybob]

Discuss
I am a Agnostic, so I'm not sure

[Acadia]

Yep.

[billybob]

Yep.

Dont go into to much detail

[Princess Onion]

Hmm, not sure what I am.

Basically: I believe there is a God, and he put us on Earth. However, he's just checking out how we turn out, not constantly involved in our everyday lives.

[magicx_3]

sure do

[billybob]

I hate it when people are always like " RELIGION IS THE OPIUM OF THE MASSES!" so lame...

[Alex]

I am a Agnostic, so I'm not sure

[Acadia]

Yep.

Dont go into to much detail

I actually believe we are here performing Satan's penance. But I am not nearly drunk enough to explain it.

[IsThatAllThereIs!]

On good days definitely, on bad days hell no!

[Equality 7-2521]

Yep.

Dont go into to much detail

I actually believe we are here performing Satan's penance. But I am not nearly drunk enough to explain it.

You need to get drunker

[Daddyslittletoy]

"God is a kid with a magnify glass."

[Halcyon]

I'm an atheist. :twisted:

[Jello]

fuck that shit

[Acadia]

Yep.

Dont go into to much detail

I actually believe we are here performing Satan's penance. But I am not nearly drunk enough to explain it.

You need to get drunker

I just might.

First of all - this theory is based on the Old and New testaments (the Catholic versions, not the ones carved up by the protestants) and Paradise Lost. And the scientific theory that the universe will continue to expand infinitely, and that there is only energy and matter, and that energy's purest form is light.

We cool with that?

[Smegma]

Yep.

Dont go into to much detail

I actually believe we are here performing Satan's penance. But I am not nearly drunk enough to explain it.

You need to get drunker

I just might.

First of all - this theory is based on the Old and New testaments (the Catholic versions, not the ones carved up by the protestants) and Paradise Lost. And the scientific theory that the universe will continue to expand infinitely, and that there is only energy and matter, and that energy's purest form is light.

We cool with that?

An Irish Catholic drunk? Surely none such as this exists!

[Jackie]

In Cube Zero, the prequel to Cube, answer yes. They don't know what would happen if you answer yes...

Has anyone watched Cube Zero, the prequel to Cube?

Acadia...you believe we're here because Satans' remorseful/regretful*? Sorry, I'm not sure whether or not that's what you're trying to say. Anyways could you explain that further? It sounds interesting

[Equality 7-2521]

Yep.

Dont go into to much detail

I actually believe we are here performing Satan's penance. But I am not nearly drunk enough to explain it.

You need to get drunker

I just might.

First of all - this theory is based on the Old and New testaments (the Catholic versions, not the ones carved up by the protestants) and Paradise Lost. And the scientific theory that the universe will continue to expand infinitely, and that there is only energy and matter, and that energy's purest form is light.

We cool with that?

Very cool. Confused, but cool

[Halcyon]

In Cube Zero, the prequel to Cube, answer yes. They don't know what would happen if you answer yes...

Has anyone watched Cube Zero, the prequel to Cube?

Acadia...you believe we're here because Satans' remorseful/regretful ? Sorry, I'm not sure whether or not that's what you're trying to say. Anyways could you explain that further? It sounds interesting
Yeah I saw it. Poor guy got the Leonard treatment at the end...

[YinYang]

Nope

[Acadia]

Very cool. Confused, but cool

Ok - so the Catholic Bible has the most complete Book of Genesis. It has both creation stories in it. The one where God made the waters recede, creating the Earth, as well as the one where He made it rain, thus creating the Earth. The Protestants took one out, cause you can't be a creationist if there are two stories.

But - when He did his making. The first thing he said was: Let there be light.

Now - as this is interactive, go look up when he made the sun, moon and stars.

[DucatAristocrat]

Sure I believe in God. We've had our fights, but I think The Man know I'm not so bad after all.

Plus, I'm apparently going to Purgatory.

[billybob]

Sure I believe in God. We've had our fights, but I think The Man know I'm not so bad after all.

Plus, I'm apparently going to Purgatory.

I heard its not great but not bad

[DucatAristocrat]

Now - as this is interactive, go look up when he made the sun, moon and stars.

And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Edit: God apparently created the Universe in six days according to Genesis and on day four, created the sun, the moon, and the stars. (Genesis 1:14-19)

[JobWasACubsFan]

Yes, I do. We'll find out eventually I guess. Actually I was thinking about death today. I believe in that and it scares the hell out of me (pardon the pun). Mostly I wonder what happens to us when we die.

[Equality 7-2521]

Very cool. Confused, but cool

Ok - so the Catholic Bible has the most complete Book of Genesis. It has both creation stories in it. The one where God made the waters recede, creating the Earth, as well as the one where He made it rain, thus creating the Earth. The Protestants took one out, cause you can't be a creationist if there are two stories.

But - when He did his making. The first thing he said was: Let there be light.

Now - as this is interactive, go look up when he made the sun, moon and stars.

please, continue

[Acadia]

And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Edit: God apparently created the Universe in six days according to Genesis and on day four, created the sun, the moon, and the stars. (Genesis 1:14-19)

Ok then - so by that logic, he created light before he made anything to emit it. We will get back to that. First. Your thoughts on this:

1: God is all knowing, so he knows what will happen to us all
2: God is all powerful, so he can affect what happens to us all
3: God is all loving, so he cares about what he made.

So how could there be a Hell, if all the above are true. And remember, this is my theory, so you have to presuppose that they ARE true.

[Equality 7-2521]

Something about free will? I don't really understand all of this stuff, but I think that this is the answer people give (albeit, more coherently)

[Acadia]

Something about free will? I don't really understand all of this stuff, but I think that this is the answer people give (albeit, more coherently)

Free will. We have it - but it is not free will that fails us. it is the exercising of it. Blaming free will is like blaming a thief because he saw something he could steal.

But assume for a minute that it was free will. God KNEW what we would do. So why would he create us to let us be destroyed?

[Equality 7-2521]

Something about free will? I don't really understand all of this stuff, but I think that this is the answer people give (albeit, more coherently)

Free will. We have it - but it is not free will that fails us. it is the exercising of it. Blaming free will is like blaming a thief because he saw something he could steal.

But assume for a minute that it was free will. God KNEW what we would do. So why would he create us to let us be destroyed?

That always seems to be the paradox. Did we really ever have a shot? It is difficult to talk about these things and still make sense (language seems to fail us).
I'm not really religious so I don't know much about these things. But I do remember some Kierkegaard work (I can't remember which one), where he was talking about Abraham and Isaac. The upshot of the thing was something like faith consists of knowing, actually knowing, that something will happen (in that instance, his son would die), but believing (acting as though?) it wouldn't. It is a weird kind of absurdity. But anyway, maybe God has faith in us, in that sense. That is almost certainly blasphemous, but oh well...

[DucatAristocrat]

And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Edit: God apparently created the Universe in six days according to Genesis and on day four, created the sun, the moon, and the stars. (Genesis 1:14-19)

Ok then - so by that logic, he created light before he made anything to emit it. We will get back to that. First. Your thoughts on this:

1: God is all knowing, so he knows what will happen to us all
2: God is all powerful, so he can affect what happens to us all
3: God is all loving, so he cares about what he made.

So how could there be a Hell, if all the above are true. And remember, this is my theory, so you have to presuppose that they ARE true.

Why wouldn't tere be a Hell? For me, I interpret number one as God basically knowing our destinies from birth to death and as we come to those little impasses in life where our freewill may take us down this road, or that road, God knows the consequences for both; and depending on what the "dilemma" is and the "wrong" path to take, it may just be the action that gets us that one way ticket to Hell.

For number two, I see this as God being able to gently steer us in the right direction or alter what may occur during the circumstances of a path we choose and depending on the extremity of it--e.g. it may involve whether we live or die--he may prevent or perpetuate either.

And finally, for number three, he is all loving and even in love, we may have to do things that may potentially harm--or perhaps in better terms, do a necessary teaching, no matter how firm it may be--what/ whom we love for their greater benefit in the future e.g. a fallen man or woman may now--depending on the crime most likely though according to my friends, repenting and etc etc may even send the mass murderer to Heaven--be cleansed enough to be allowed through the Pearly Gates.

Oh yes, I think I should add in that though I believe in God, I never had any formal religious training/ schooling to probably affect my views and allow me to draw on religious statements. This is purely my thought process.

I am also not especially religious.

[Alex]

I can't say much for my religious beliefs, but...

This thread really is going to go to hell.
PUN INTENDED OLOL

Big religious discussions never help IMO, no one comes out with any new knowledge or thoughts. They're usually just more bitter more people don't see their way afterwards.

[Equality 7-2521]

I don' think that anyone will come out of this bitter. In any event, I'm just curious as to Acadia's views

[DucatAristocrat]

I can't say much for my religious beliefs, but...

This thread really is going to go to hell.
PUN INTENDED OLOL

Big religious discussions never help IMO, no one comes out with any new knowledge or thoughts. They're usually just more bitter more people don't see their way afterwards.

No one is fighting :?

[Alex]

I can't say much for my religious beliefs, but...

This thread really is going to go to hell.
PUN INTENDED OLOL

Big religious discussions never help IMO, no one comes out with any new knowledge or thoughts. They're usually just more bitter more people don't see their way afterwards.

No one is fighting :?

Yet...

It was more of a forewarning. :wink:

[Halcyon]

I can't say much for my religious beliefs, but...

This thread really is going to go to hell.
PUN INTENDED OLOL

Big religious discussions never help IMO, no one comes out with any new knowledge or thoughts. They're usually just more bitter more people don't see their way afterwards.
I agree.

Go atheists!

[bustedstr8]

A little drunk so bear with me.

Yes, I believe. Anyone who has seen a child born, and person die or looked out over the Grand Canyon, Alps etc, etc etc can't help but believe that all of these things were put here as huge warning signs that there is a higher power.

I was raised and practice Roman Catholic. But i think we all pray to the same god, I think he smiles down on us and wonders why we can't see that we all love the same being regardless of what we have named him.

I believe that free will exists, and can send us to our own private hell, and the soul is infinite and can be saved.

[DucatAristocrat]

I can't say much for my religious beliefs, but...

This thread really is going to go to hell.
PUN INTENDED OLOL

Big religious discussions never help IMO, no one comes out with any new knowledge or thoughts. They're usually just more bitter more people don't see their way afterwards.

No one is fighting :?

Yet...

Oh okay :) It won't be me though! I'll easily drop out if it goes that route. I am participating in this upon request--all in good fun!

[Halcyon]

A little drunk so bear with me.

Yes, I believe. Anyone who has seen a child born, and person die or looked out over the Grand Canyon, Alps etc, etc etc can't help but believe that all of these things were put here as huge warning signs that there is a higher power.

I was raised and practice Roman Catholic. But i think we all pray to the same god, I think he smiles down on us and wonders why we can't see that we all love the same being regardless of what we have named him.

I believe that free will exists, and can send us to our own private hell, and the soul is infinite and can be saved.
LOL...

No offense but that is the typical jesus freak "rhetoric"

[bustedstr8]

[quote=bustedstr8]A little drunk so bear with me.

Yes, I believe. Anyone who has seen a child born, and person die or looked out over the Grand Canyon, Alps etc, etc etc can't help but believe that all of these things were put here as huge warning signs that there is a higher power.

I was raised and practice Roman Catholic. But i think we all pray to the same god, I think he smiles down on us and wonders why we can't see that we all love the same being regardless of what we have named him.

I believe that free will exists, and can send us to our own private hell, and the soul is infinite and can be saved.
LOL...





OK...well thanks for tearing apart my whole belief system. What do you believe?

[Equality 7-2521]

A little drunk so bear with me.

Yes, I believe. Anyone who has seen a child born, and person die or looked out over the Grand Canyon, Alps etc, etc etc can't help but believe that all of these things were put here as huge warning signs that there is a higher power.

I was raised and practice Roman Catholic. But i think we all pray to the same god, I think he smiles down on us and wonders why we can't see that we all love the same being regardless of what we have named him.

I believe that free will exists, and can send us to our own private hell, and the soul is infinite and can be saved.
LOL...

No offense but that is the typical jesus freak "rhetoric"

What is?
Okay, I'm to go ahead and find that offensive...

[DucatAristocrat]

I can't say much for my religious beliefs, but...

This thread really is going to go to hell.
PUN INTENDED OLOL

Big religious discussions never help IMO, no one comes out with any new knowledge or thoughts. They're usually just more bitter more people don't see their way afterwards.

No one is fighting :?

Yet...

It was more of a forewarning. :wink:

:)I am aware, I am here for one reason only...usually I would not be knowing as this is often my belief anyway that some topics are just "hot topics" in a bad way (in some places, with some people).

[Sedrox]

Discussions on religion usually follow one pattern.. People that share their religious views with you, don't want you to share yours with them.

I'm agnostic, largely because religion gives people a false sense of security that they then feel empowered by, and ... and well.. .that's just weak behaviour.

IF People showed the same passion that they do for religion - but towards something productive and industrial - the world could be a better, safer place.

[bustedstr8]

A little drunk so bear with me.

Yes, I believe. Anyone who has seen a child born, and person die or looked out over the Grand Canyon, Alps etc, etc etc can't help but believe that all of these things were put here as huge warning signs that there is a higher power.

I was raised and practice Roman Catholic. But i think we all pray to the same god, I think he smiles down on us and wonders why we can't see that we all love the same being regardless of what we have named him.

I believe that free will exists, and can send us to our own private hell, and the soul is infinite and can be saved.
LOL...

No offense but that is the typical jesus freak "rhetoric"


I'm looking for my "rhetoic"...is it that I said people are free to worship in their own way, or that I believe we have souls that can be saved regardless of activity. Wow what a freak I am...please pardon me while I pick up my snakes.

[Alex]

@DucatAristocrat: Look at some of the posts above, see what I mean?

[Halcyon]

Anyone who has seen a child born, and person die or looked out over the Grand Canyon, Alps etc, etc etc can't help but believe that all of these things were put here as huge warning signs that there is a higher power.

As a hint to what I believe...your quote above shows you one of the reasons I DESPISE religion (less so the belief in a "god")

Too many times do religious people say, "oh this is beautiful...I couldnt do this, so a big fucking power must have done it for me to enjoy." Blah Blah, whatever. If you took the time to read, study, question, hypothesize, experiment, analyze, observe the world around you...hell, if EVERYBODY did these things instead of just assuming a "god" did it, the world would be a better place.

[bustedstr8]

@DucatAristocrat: Look at some of the posts above, see what I mean?

You think discussions shouldn't be had because they might cause a bit of debate?

Isn't that what a good conversation is supposed to do?

[DucatAristocrat]

@DucatAristocrat: Look at the posts above yours, see what I mean?

I'm not going to involve myself in that. I did once, and never again, though of course it was not in politics or religion, but all the same...

Being pretty insightful on this myself, I participated only upon a friendly behest and I promised I "will tread carefully". I think I'll stick to my words. I may be done here.

And it also depends; this has not become a flame war. Sure, there may be the slightest hint of mockery, but it can be nipped in the bud.

Debate is still alive and well here. Flaming/ a caustic arguement has not begun.

[bustedstr8]

Anyone who has seen a child born, and person die or looked out over the Grand Canyon, Alps etc, etc etc can't help but believe that all of these things were put here as huge warning signs that there is a higher power.

As a hint to what I believe...your quote above shows you one of the reasons I DESPISE religion (less so the belief in a "god")

Too many times do religious people say, "oh this is beautiful...I couldnt do this, so a big fucking power must have done it for me to enjoy." Blah Blah, whatever. If you took the time to read, study, question, hypothesize, experiment, analyze, observe the world around you...hell, if EVERYBODY did these things instead of just assuming a "god" did it, the world would be a better place.


Cool, I will pray for you tonight

[Equality 7-2521]

@DucatAristocrat: Look at some of the posts above, see what I mean?

Okay, so if Neo would stay out of it, we would be fine

[Halcyon]

Anyone who has seen a child born, and person die or looked out over the Grand Canyon, Alps etc, etc etc can't help but believe that all of these things were put here as huge warning signs that there is a higher power.

As a hint to what I believe...your quote above shows you one of the reasons I DESPISE religion (less so the belief in a "god")

Too many times do religious people say, "oh this is beautiful...I couldnt do this, so a big fucking power must have done it for me to enjoy." Blah Blah, whatever. If you took the time to read, study, question, hypothesize, experiment, analyze, observe the world around you...hell, if EVERYBODY did these things instead of just assuming a "god" did it, the world would be a better place.


Cool, I will pray for you tonight
Go ahead, it won't do anything.

[Equality 7-2521]

Anyone who has seen a child born, and person die or looked out over the Grand Canyon, Alps etc, etc etc can't help but believe that all of these things were put here as huge warning signs that there is a higher power.

As a hint to what I believe...your quote above shows you one of the reasons I DESPISE religion (less so the belief in a "god")

Too many times do religious people say, "oh this is beautiful...I couldnt do this, so a big fucking power must have done it for me to enjoy." Blah Blah, whatever. If you took the time to read, study, question, hypothesize, experiment, analyze, observe the world around you...hell, if EVERYBODY did these things instead of just assuming a "god" did it, the world would be a better place.

I think you're conflating things

[bustedstr8]

Anyone who has seen a child born, and person die or looked out over the Grand Canyon, Alps etc, etc etc can't help but believe that all of these things were put here as huge warning signs that there is a higher power.

As a hint to what I believe...your quote above shows you one of the reasons I DESPISE religion (less so the belief in a "god")

Too many times do religious people say, "oh this is beautiful...I couldnt do this, so a big fucking power must have done it for me to enjoy." Blah Blah, whatever. If you took the time to read, study, question, hypothesize, experiment, analyze, observe the world around you...hell, if EVERYBODY did these things instead of just assuming a "god" did it, the world would be a better place.


I am not challenging you, but I am curious.

How would the world be "a better place" if people didn't draw their inspiration from a higher power?

Please spare the "more people have died in the name of God" talk. 50 million died in the soviet union in the 20th century, which denied the existence of God. Which proves man is capable of killing man regardless of relgion.

[David Patton]

If instead of believing there is a god, you believed there was not and that anything you wanted out of life, you had to discover, understand and develope yourself, then would that speed up discovery and innovation or slow it down?

If on the other hand, you simply say, "God created it and I, a mere mortal, could never hope to fathom it" and go on your merry way, without trying to understand and develope the knowledge needed to unravel the mystery, wouldn't that slow study and understanding?

[Equality 7-2521]

If instead of believing there is a god, you believed there was not and that anything you wanted out of life, you had to discover, understand and develope yourself, then would that speed up discovery and innovation or slow it down?

If on the other hand, you simply say, "God created it and I, a mere mortal, could never hope to fathom it" and go on your merry way, without trying to understand and develope the knowledge needed to unravel the mystery, wouldn't that slow study and understanding?

I do not understand how this relates to reality

[Acadia]

I don' think that anyone will come out of this bitter. In any event, I'm just curious as to Acadia's views

OK - I dont know what happened in the middle there, but I will continue.

So - god made the angels before he made us. They were better than us, too. , cause they got to live in heaven. And their whole job was to talk about how great God was.

But Lucifer said: Non Serviam - and god got pissed. He kicked him and all his buddies out of Heaven and into Hell. But he had to MAKE hell. So what would hell have been?

[David Patton]

Most of the great religious documents were written thousands of years ago. People understood very little of how the world works. They needed a means of explaining it to themselves. "God" was a handy way to do that.

How was the world created? God did it. Why does the sun revolve around the earth? God made it happen.

If you could go back in time with a pocket full of modern devices, you could make a lot of those same people believe you were god. The difference is, you know how some of the magic works.

Now to maintain control, you need to keep the magic alive. Remember from the Wizard of Oz, "Don't pay any attention to that man behind the curtain, I am the great Oz."

Now if people start to understand some of the magic, and it fails to jive with the writings of the prophets, then we must cut down those heretics and stop their teaching.

There may be a god, but religion is no indicator.

[REALLY REALLY BIG MAN!]

Fuck no.

[Equality 7-2521]

I don' think that anyone will come out of this bitter. In any event, I'm just curious as to Acadia's views

OK - I dont know what happened in the middle there, but I will continue.


Thank God...

So what would hell have been?

I'm not sure that I understand the question

[Equality 7-2521]

I don' think that anyone will come out of this bitter. In any event, I'm just curious as to Acadia's views

OK - I dont know what happened in the middle there, but I will continue.


Thank God...

So what would hell have been?

I'm not sure that I understand the question

Maybe it would havve been questioning God's greatness?

[Acadia]

I don' think that anyone will come out of this bitter. In any event, I'm just curious as to Acadia's views

OK - I dont know what happened in the middle there, but I will continue.


Thank God...

So what would hell have been?

I'm not sure that I understand the question

well, my point with that is, that god had to stick them in a place that was not heaven. cause that's the only punishment they could really have.

So anyway - he kicked them out for EXERCISING free will. They always had it - but they never used it. But god judged them by a higher standard, cause they were close to the source, and it was sort of like a child rebelling against his parents (remember that one of the commandments is honor your father and mother).

So - the first thign god says when he makes our universe is: Let there be light. And lucifer, the fallen angel's name means light, or light bearer.

Still interested? Cause it is almost the end.

[David Patton]

"If there were no god, man would create one to explain things he does not understand."

I believe in that and "Magic is science we don't understand."

I think that organized religion stands squarly in the way of mans further understanding of the universe he lives in. For that reason, I find organized religion an unfunny joke.

[Acadia]

"If there were no god, man would create one to explain things he does not understand."

I believe in that and "Magic is science we don't understand."

I think that organized religion stands squarly in the way of mans further understanding of the universe he lives in. For that reason, I find organized religion an unfunny joke.

Science can purify religion from error and superstition. Religion can purify science from idolatry and false absolutes.
Pope John Paul II

yeah - fuck them!

[Equality 7-2521]

I don' think that anyone will come out of this bitter. In any event, I'm just curious as to Acadia's views

OK - I dont know what happened in the middle there, but I will continue.


Thank God...

So what would hell have been?

I'm not sure that I understand the question

well, my point with that is, that god had to stick them in a place that was not heaven. cause that's the only punishment they could really have.

So anyway - he kicked them out for EXERCISING free will. They always had it - but they never used it. But god judged them by a higher standard, cause they were close to the source, and it was sort of like a child rebelling against his parents (remember that one of the commandments is honor your father and mother).

So - the first thign god says when he makes our universe is: Let there be light. And lucifer, the fallen angel's name means light, or light bearer.

Still interested? Cause it is almost the end.

Of course, though I do have to go out soon, so please hurry

[Equality 7-2521]

yeah - fuck them!

Nicely put

[Don Logan]

I was raised Catholic and have gone through all the sacraments. Meaning, I have been baptised and confirmed. I went to private Catholic school my whole life. My parents are Catholic as is my sister.

I am an Atheist. I do not believe in organized religion or god. But I do not preach. Do whatever you have to do to get you through the day. I respect a persons right to believe or have faith in anything they want.

[Acadia]

Of course, though I do have to go out soon, so please hurry

OK - so the final rundown is this.

God made our universe out of the fallen angels - cause he put them in a place which was not heaven - and we can all agree that this is not heaven. We all have free will - and that really means we have the ability to NOT be selfish. We have the ability to NOT hurt others. But most times, being selfish is quicker and easier.

So - why are we here? Cause god is all merciful, and we are performing Satan's penance. We are all the fallen angel, every one of us.

The universe keeps expanding - infinitely. And all we have is matter and energy. And energy's purest form is light. Eventually, the HEAT (which makes light) will be gone from the universe. Things will still be moving - but it will be dark. Completely dark.

When that occurs, Lucifer's penance will be over. And everything will be back to god. The only way god can be faithful to himself is to let satan have another chance. We are it.

Its why being good is harder than being shitty, but feels better.

Anyway- it's a theory. Jesuit university, William Peter Blatty and a lot of booze makes for goood theories.

[Acadia]

I was raised Catholic and have gone through all the sacraments. Meaning, I have been baptised and confirmed. I went to private Catholic school my whole life. My parents are Catholic as is my sister.

I am an Atheist. I do not believe in organized religion or god. But I do not preach. Do whatever you have to do to get you through the day. I respect a persons right to believe or have faith in anything they want.

You are smart

[Don Logan]

Are you being sarcastic?

[David Patton]

Of course, though I do have to go out soon, so please hurry

OK - so the final rundown is this.

God made our universe out of the fallen angels - cause he put them in a place which was not heaven - and we can all agree that this is not heaven. We all have free will - and that really means we have the ability to NOT be selfish. We have the ability to NOT hurt others. But most times, being selfish is quicker and easier.

So - why are we here? Cause god is all merciful, and we are performing Satan's penance. We are all the fallen angel, every one of us.

The universe keeps expanding - infinitely. And all we have is matter and energy. And energy's purest form is light. Eventually, the HEAT (which makes light) will be gone from the universe. Things will still be moving - but it will be dark. Completely dark.

When that occurs, Lucifer's penance will be over. And everything will be back to god. The only way god can be faithful to himself is to let satan have another chance. We are it.

Its why being good is harder than being shitty, but feels better.

Anyway- it's a theory. Jesuit university, William Peter Blatty and a lot of booze makes for goood theories.

Nice tale

[Acadia]

Are you being sarcastic?

Not in the least. I was being honest.

[Halcyon]

I was raised Catholic and have gone through all the sacraments. Meaning, I have been baptised and confirmed. I went to private Catholic school my whole life. My parents are Catholic as is my sister.

I am an Atheist. I do not believe in organized religion or god. But I do not preach. Do whatever you have to do to get you through the day. I respect a persons right to believe or have faith in anything they want.

You are smart
I'm just like Don Logan with the exception of confirmation and I say what I believe. People can believe whatever they want. I will say what I believe just as much as any religious person can.

[Equality 7-2521]

Of course, though I do have to go out soon, so please hurry

OK - so the final rundown is this.

God made our universe out of the fallen angels - cause he put them in a place which was not heaven - and we can all agree that this is not heaven. We all have free will - and that really means we have the ability to NOT be selfish. We have the ability to NOT hurt others. But most times, being selfish is quicker and easier.

So - why are we here? Cause god is all merciful, and we are performing Satan's penance. We are all the fallen angel, every one of us.

The universe keeps expanding - infinitely. And all we have is matter and energy. And energy's purest form is light. Eventually, the HEAT (which makes light) will be gone from the universe. Things will still be moving - but it will be dark. Completely dark.

When that occurs, Lucifer's penance will be over. And everything will be back to god. The only way god can be faithful to himself is to let satan have another chance. We are it.

Its why being good is harder than being shitty, but feels better.

Anyway- it's a theory. Jesuit university, William Peter Blatty and a lot of booze makes for goood theories.

That is both beautiful and interesting. Maybe I'll think about that when I'm drunk, tonight.
I like the idea that that Lucifer can't be cast out forever. But what, then, is the upshot of whatever it is we're doing? That is, we are his penance, but what is the importance of our lives (or rather, how we live our lives), if all will return once the light has faded (which will happen regardless of whether or not I am good)?
I will certainly give this some thought. Thanks for explaining

[Equality 7-2521]

I was raised Catholic and have gone through all the sacraments. Meaning, I have been baptised and confirmed. I went to private Catholic school my whole life. My parents are Catholic as is my sister.

I am an Atheist. I do not believe in organized religion or god. But I do not preach. Do whatever you have to do to get you through the day. I respect a persons right to believe or have faith in anything they want.

You are smart
I'm just like Don Logan with the exception of confirmation and I say what I believe. People can believe whatever they want. I will say what I believe just as much as any religious person can.

Except that Don Logan never referred to a benign comment as the "rhetoric" of a "jesus freak"

[Don Logan]

Thank you Arcadia.

I don't really talk about religion. It's just one of those things that is so personal that people usually get offended. In addition, religious people USUALLY have a pre-conceived notion as to what an Atheist is all about. I don't need to change anyones mind as to what I am all about.

If they are going to stereotype from the beginning, chances are they are not going to listen to reason.

[David Patton]

Now you see there, with that sort of logic, there is no need for people to flame one another over the stuff that has been used for thousands of years to justify wars and mass murder through the sordid history of the human animal.

[Halcyon]

If instead of believing there is a god, you believed there was not and that anything you wanted out of life, you had to discover, understand and develope yourself, then would that speed up discovery and innovation or slow it down?

If on the other hand, you simply say, "God created it and I, a mere mortal, could never hope to fathom it" and go on your merry way, without trying to understand and develope the knowledge needed to unravel the mystery, wouldn't that slow study and understanding?

I do not understand how this relates to reality
I like you, dude, but you gotta be fucking kidding me.

[Acadia]

That is both beautiful and interesting. Maybe I'll think about that when I'm drunk, tonight.
I like the idea that that Lucifer can't be cast out forever. But what, then, is the upshot of whatever it is we're doing? That is, we are his penance, but what is the importance of our lives (or rather, how we live our lives), if all will return once the light has faded (which will happen regardless of whether or not I am good)?
I will certainly give this some thought. Thanks for explaining

If one presumes that Heaven is the place to be - then the better you live, the faster the process to get you there. At the end of it, its everybody in. But why fart around in purgatory if you can get in quick?

[REALLY REALLY BIG MAN!]

This debate makes my head spin.

[Don Logan]

Of course it does. It's complex. Your usually talking about...

"Who's better, Bert or Ernie?"

[David Patton]

Of course it does. It's complex. Your usually talking about...

"Who's better, Bert or Ernie?"

That is so cool. :lol:

[Equality 7-2521]

If instead of believing there is a god, you believed there was not and that anything you wanted out of life, you had to discover, understand and develope yourself, then would that speed up discovery and innovation or slow it down?

If on the other hand, you simply say, "God created it and I, a mere mortal, could never hope to fathom it" and go on your merry way, without trying to understand and develope the knowledge needed to unravel the mystery, wouldn't that slow study and understanding?

I do not understand how this relates to reality
I like you, dude, but you gotta be fucking kidding me.

I'm not. Even the ID people, who are arguably most like this, are (at least ostensibly) providing a critique. But more normally, I don't think that Acadia thinks that it is useless to try to understand the universe. And refer to Acadia's quotation of John Paul II.

But really I was noting the fact that what he said pose a dichotomy, either God or science. I was mearly saying that this does not reflect the state of the world.

[REALLY REALLY BIG MAN!]

No, because it's useless. I'm kind of tired of athiest vs. insert religion here. I gotta hand it to you guys though, you all managed to keep the insulting to a minimum.

[Don Logan]

No, because it's useless. I'm kind of tired of athiest vs. insert religion here. I gotta hand it to you guys though, you all managed to keep the insulting to a minimum.

Fuck off idiot. Sorry, someone had to get insulted.

[Equality 7-2521]

Ack! I have to go, you guys. Keep this up, and prepare for this to be BUMPED tonight or tomorrow (or never)

[REALLY REALLY BIG MAN!]

Nice job.

[Don Logan]

Nice job.

Thanks.

[Alex]

LOL @ THE INTERNET

People crack me up. Good times.

[Acadia]

Neo - do you think the only religious people in the world are fundamentalists? I ask because your arguments and outrage seem to center on those types of arguments.

Also - to anyone who is talking about the atrocities committed in the name of religion...are they any better or worse than the ones committed in the name of nationalism?

Should I decide to not be American because the people who represented the country slaughtered millions of natives because of 'manifest destiny'? Or enslaved millions of black because of their own perception of science?

I am actually non-practicing Catholic, and my wife is Jewish - so I am not really some sort of zealot - I just don't understand how these ideas get formed, and am interested.

[David Patton]

If instead of believing there is a god, you believed there was not and that anything you wanted out of life, you had to discover, understand and develope yourself, then would that speed up discovery and innovation or slow it down?

If on the other hand, you simply say, "God created it and I, a mere mortal, could never hope to fathom it" and go on your merry way, without trying to understand and develope the knowledge needed to unravel the mystery, wouldn't that slow study and understanding?

I do not understand how this relates to reality
I like you, dude, but you gotta be fucking kidding me.

I'm not. Even the ID people, who are arguably most like this, are (at least ostensibly) providing a critique. But more normally, I don't think that Acadia thinks that it is useless to try to understand the universe. And refer to Acadia's quotation of John Paul II.

But really I was noting the fact that what he said pose a dichotomy, either God or science. I was mearly saying that this does not reflect the state of the world.

I think I went on to explain later, but my point is the to reinforce the power held by the church, the church must suppress the search for knowledge. Example: All of the dark ages, and today, Intelligent Design vs. Evolution, but history points to many examples.

[Acadia]

If instead of believing there is a god, you believed there was not and that anything you wanted out of life, you had to discover, understand and develope yourself, then would that speed up discovery and innovation or slow it down?

If on the other hand, you simply say, "God created it and I, a mere mortal, could never hope to fathom it" and go on your merry way, without trying to understand and develope the knowledge needed to unravel the mystery, wouldn't that slow study and understanding?

I do not understand how this relates to reality
I like you, dude, but you gotta be fucking kidding me.

I'm not. Even the ID people, who are arguably most like this, are (at least ostensibly) providing a critique. But more normally, I don't think that Acadia thinks that it is useless to try to understand the universe. And refer to Acadia's quotation of John Paul II.

But really I was noting the fact that what he said pose a dichotomy, either God or science. I was mearly saying that this does not reflect the state of the world.

I think I went on to explain later, but my point is the to reinforce the power held by the church, the church must suppress the search for knowledge. Example: All of the dark ages, and today, Intelligent Design vs. Evolution, but history points to many examples.

The Catholic Church does not want Intelligent design taught in schools. The Catholic Church has no problem with evolution - as it does not take the book of Genesis literally.

[Halcyon]

Neo - do you think the only religious people in the world are fundamentalists? I ask because your arguments and outrage seem to center on those types of arguments.

Absolutely not, and you can see that my"outrage" is only limited to those types.

[Halcyon]

The Catholic Church does not want Intelligent design taught in schools. The Catholic Church has no problem with evolution - as it does not take the book of Genesis literally.
Good to see you know what you're talking about.

[David Patton]

I was of course referring to organized religion in general and not the Catholic church specificly. If I had been referring to the Catholic church, I would have pointed to Galileo or someone more suitable to the argument.

[OldGravy]

I'm gonna wade in with my opinions on this one. I take the human-science approach; I believe many of us need to believe in a higher power of whatever description as a means to understand that which we cannot otherwise explain.

I envy believers sometimes, though, because I think they often have a strength of purpose that I lack.

I simply can't put my faith in anything I believe was shaped by us. We're imperfect beings, so claiming to know the intent of God is the height of our arrogance as a species.

[David Patton]

I'm gonna wade in with my opinions on this one. I take the human-science approach; I believe many of us need to believe in a higher power of whatever description as a means to understand that which we cannot otherwise explain.

I envy believers sometimes, though, because I think they often have a strength of purpose that I lack.

I simply can't put my faith in anything I believe was shaped by us. We're imperfect beings, so claiming to know the intent of God is the height of our arrogance as a species.

Point well made.

[OldGravy]

*shrug* It's just what I believe. Who the eff am I to tell you I'm right? Believe what you want, share your beliefs with those curious about them, and we will all collectively gain a better understanding. :)

[Don Logan]

If it was only that simple. Life on this planet would be so much eaiser if understanding and tolerance were more widely used.

[OldGravy]

If it was only that simple. Life on this planet would be so much eaiser if understanding and tolerance were more widely used.

Yeah it's pretty easy to preach tolerance, but practicing it is another matter. :( Oh well, that's life -- a challenge!

[Don Logan]

Not sure if that was how you truly felt, but in the realm of tolerance, the key is action and not the act of preaching. Actions convey so much more when dealing with the concept of tolerance and even understanding.

Try it. Next time you are in a trying situation and the more common reaction is to blow your top, try using a different approach. It sometimes shocks people.

[RodeoHK]

Believing in God gives me hope.

[OldGravy]

Try it. Next time you are in a trying situation and the more common reaction is to blow your top, try using a different approach. It sometimes shocks people.

Word to your mother?

I like to think I'm fairly even-tempered. Hop over to the techy-thread where I resisted the urge to pimp-slap Neo! :D

[yoyomellow]

I'm gonna wade in with my opinions on this one. I take the human-science approach; I believe many of us need to believe in a higher power of whatever description as a means to understand that which we cannot otherwise explain.

I envy believers sometimes, though, because I think they often have a strength of purpose that I lack.

I simply can't put my faith in anything I believe was shaped by us. We're imperfect beings, so claiming to know the intent of God is the height of our arrogance as a species.

Those could be my exact words. I was brought up with Catholic, and I was grown up with guilt all around me and the guilty feelings nearly killed me... I could go into detail, but nonetheless I was turned off religion. Then I took a World Religions class and def. realized I did not want to be associated with anybody--just a personal opinion. i want my own thoughts...

[Alex]

Believing in God gives me hope.

That's the case with most people, I think.

And regardless of whether or not God exists -- it is one hell of a motivator, you gotta give it that. :P

[Don Logan]

A Word Religions like class also made me look at things in a different way.

I would say 95 percent of all religions today were derived from the Persion religion of Zoroastrianism.

[RodeoHK]

A Word Religions like class also made me look at things in a different way.

I would say 95 percent of all religions today were derived from the Persion religion of Zoroastrianism.

Huh

[Don Logan]

Yup. Shocked me too.

[yoyomellow]

A Word Religions like class also made me look at things in a different way.

I would say 95 percent of all religions today were derived from the Persion religion of Zoroastrianism.

i would say so too!

[OldGravy]

Many of the themes are similar across a broad range of cultures. That says something, either for the 'believers' or the 'unbelievers.' ;)

[Equality 7-2521]

If instead of believing there is a god, you believed there was not and that anything you wanted out of life, you had to discover, understand and develope yourself, then would that speed up discovery and innovation or slow it down?

If on the other hand, you simply say, "God created it and I, a mere mortal, could never hope to fathom it" and go on your merry way, without trying to understand and develope the knowledge needed to unravel the mystery, wouldn't that slow study and understanding?

I do not understand how this relates to reality
I like you, dude, but you gotta be fucking kidding me.

I'm not. Even the ID people, who are arguably most like this, are (at least ostensibly) providing a critique. But more normally, I don't think that Acadia thinks that it is useless to try to understand the universe. And refer to Acadia's quotation of John Paul II.

But really I was noting the fact that what he said pose a dichotomy, either God or science. I was mearly saying that this does not reflect the state of the world.

I think I went on to explain later, but my point is the to reinforce the power held by the church, the church must suppress the search for knowledge. Example: All of the dark ages, and today, Intelligent Design vs. Evolution, but history points to many examples.

I mean, fair enough. I wa only responding to neo's response to what I said (which occured before your "clarification"). That is, I was serious; that is, I wasn't kidding him

[Ramirez]

I believe in God: he created me, and you, and the Easter bunny...

Just last week i melted somebody who pissed me off. That's the world we live in: one with no laws, or rules, or sense. Everything is senseless and science can find no sort of pattern or logic. The end.

[David Patton]

I believe in God: he created me, and you, and the Easter bunny...

Just last week i melted somebody who pissed me off. That's the world we live in: one with no laws, or rules, or sense. Everything is senseless and science can find no sort of pattern or logic. The end.

Now we have another view on the topic. :P

[bustedstr8]

i'm not sure which religion everything points back to. but what i do know is that most religions share the same qualities. i.e - creation story, moral code, self determination, afterlife...etc. If billions of people can all believe the same basic concepts i can't help but believe it must point towards something. i am catholic, and i can see how many, many people would choose another route. i say at the end of the day do your own homework, and find something that makes sense to you. If we all do more good than harm whatever awaits us at the end sould work its self out.

As for man needing to deny God in order to create/understand. I think that DaVinci, St. Aquinous, Ford, Eddison, Franklin etc, etc, etc might have something to say about that.

One man's opinion

[Ramirez]

If billions of people can all believe the same basic concepts i can't help but believe it must point towards something.

Stupidity.

[bustedstr8]

If billions of people can all believe the same basic concepts i can't help but believe it must point towards something.

Stupidity.

Guess I am stupid then

[jethro]

God is such a subjective term.
It is so easily abused.
I like to direct my faith towards
myself and my fellow man rather then
trusting an invisible entity
who may or may not be benevolent.
That being said, I try to carry a certain respect
towards all denominations and religeous preferences.
But human nature deems us sheep,
and we are easily led.

All that is good in the world lies within your own soul.

[bustedstr8]

God is such a subjective term.
It is so easily abused.
I like to direct my faith towards
myself and my fellow man rather then
trusting an invisible entity
who may or may not be benevolent.
That being said, I try to carry a certain respect
towards all denominations and religeous preferences.
But human nature deems us sheep,
and we are easily led.

All that is good in the world lies within your own soul.


pretty good....except that i don't think we are all sheep

[jethro]

Certainly there are leaders and followers.
The vast majority being in the second category
is what leads us to the exploitation and
abuses of power in organized religion as well as
government.
Athiests may feel they are stronger for not having
faith, and to a certain extent that is true,
but at what cost?

[Ramirez]

If billions of people can all believe the same basic concepts i can't help but believe it must point towards something.

Stupidity.

Guess I am stupid then

Duh.

[bustedstr8]

If billions of people can all believe the same basic concepts i can't help but believe it must point towards something.

Stupidity.

Guess I am stupid then

Duh.


we all can't idolize nazis

[MrHouse]

Yes.

I'm wish I hadn't missed this thread.

[Ramirez]

If billions of people can all believe the same basic concepts i can't help but believe it must point towards something.

Stupidity.

Guess I am stupid then

Duh.


we all can't idolize nazis

'We all cannot idolize nazis'.....i'm not sure i follow your meaning in this sentence or its relevance (given that it doesn't make sense..).

[bustedstr8]

If billions of people can all believe the same basic concepts i can't help but believe it must point towards something.

Stupidity.

Guess I am stupid then

Duh.


we all can't idolize nazis

'We all cannot idolize nazis'.....i'm not sure i follow your meaning in this sentence or its relevance (given that it doesn't make sense..).


sure it does. you took one look at me and determined i was stupid. i take one look at your link at what you think of it (best fuher ever!) and i came to my conclusion. all-in-all i'd say mine is based on better logic

[Ramirez]

If billions of people can all believe the same basic concepts i can't help but believe it must point towards something.

Stupidity.

Guess I am stupid then

Duh.


we all can't idolize nazis

'We all cannot idolize nazis'.....i'm not sure i follow your meaning in this sentence or its relevance (given that it doesn't make sense..).


sure it does. you took one look at me and determined i was stupid. i take one look at your link at what you think of it (best fuher ever!) and i came to my conclusion. all-in-all i'd say mine is based on better logic

Sure what does? What the fuck are you talking about - is English your 5th language?

Now, to the question of logic: didn't you say you're Catholic?

The sentence - nursery pupil - 'we all cannot idolize nazis' doesn't make much sense in terms of a sentence making any frickin' sense.

You weren't being sensical in your pseudo-conclusion that i'm a Nazi: this forum would most likely ban someone who's a Nazi and actively showing this.

Stupid.

[bustedstr8]

If billions of people can all believe the same basic concepts i can't help but believe it must point towards something.

Stupidity.

Guess I am stupid then

Duh.


we all can't idolize nazis

'We all cannot idolize nazis'.....i'm not sure i follow your meaning in this sentence or its relevance (given that it doesn't make sense..).


sure it does. you took one look at me and determined i was stupid. i take one look at your link at what you think of it (best fuher ever!) and i came to my conclusion. all-in-all i'd say mine is based on better logic

Sure what does? What the fuck are you talking about - is English your 5th language?

Now, to the question of logic: didn't you say you're Catholic?

The sentence - nursery pupil - 'we all cannot idolize nazis' doesn't make much sense in terms of a sentence making any frickin' sense.

You weren't being sensical in your pseudo-conclusion that i'm a Nazi: this forum would most likely ban someone who's a Nazi and actively showing this.

Stupid.


I didn't say you were a Nazi, I said that you must idolize them because you write that Hitler was the best furher ever! and link to wikepedia about him. Thus you must really think a lot of Hitler.

You said :'We all cannot idolize nazis'.....i'm not sure i follow your meaning in this sentence or its relevance (given that it doesn't make sense..) I said that it (my sentence) makes sense. I have noticed that you tend to follow a pattern with most of your posts.

1. you come into a thread with a puerile post like "stupidity" without offering anything to the discussion.

2. When you are inevitably called out on it you argue the spelling, grammar or structure of the argument rather than the actual argument...

3. then you just insult the other person.


a little childish don't you think?

[Mills]

I believe in Bruce Campbell.

God's just an idea.

[wynn]

I am Buddhist. The great thing about Buddhism is that it is open to personal interpretation of the Buddha's teachings. Basically Buddha (Siddhartha) taught the ideals of Buddhism but never took anything away from people who felt that it is different. While I believe in most everything the Buddha spoke of and taught there are many things I have interpreted to my own beliefs.

I do believe in Reincarnation. I do believe in an ultimate attainable heaven which can be reached through good deads and trying to follow the eightfold path and the five precepts of Buddhism. I don't believe in an ultimate God or figure who looks over the universe and all its going ons. I don't not believe in this though. I feel that if we are supposed to understand then it would be very apparent. The Buddha said that the only thing certain in life is that everything is born and everything dies. I believe in soul mates and feel that two people are destined to find each other and be together in every life time. I consider all life precious all the way from a fly to a human being.

When I am back in USA some people think my religion and spirituality is a little nutty but that is fine. The great thing about Buddhism is that a Buddhist will never preach to a person or try to convert a person. Unlike Catholocism and other religions Buddhists generally don't feel like people are right or wrong for believing what they believe. Nobody knows anything for sure and believing anything, whether it is believing in nothing or believing in everything, is better than just not caring at all.

[Ramirez]

I didn't say you were a Nazi, I said that you must idolize them because you write that Hitler was the best furher ever! and link to wikepedia about him. Thus you must really think a lot of Hitler.

You said :'We all cannot idolize nazis'.....i'm not sure i follow your meaning in this sentence or its relevance (given that it doesn't make sense..) I said that it (my sentence) makes sense. I have noticed that you tend to follow a pattern with most of your posts.

1. you come into a thread with a puerile post like "stupidity" without offering anything to the discussion.

2. When you are inevitably called out on it you argue the spelling, grammar or structure of the argument rather than the actual argument...

3. then you just inslult the other person.


a little childish don't you think?

Well douche (3), you're observant - you really spare no effort in making sure you're correct in your arguments. I 'came into the thread' before my brilliant observation 'stupidity'.

I offered something to the discussion with that puerile (jealous?) remark: my view on what you said.

I refer you to the last new member who thought they'd run their mouth and make flawed observations about what my signature means without knowing anything about it (i'll be damned if you weren't in this thread):

http://thesuperficial.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2557&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=150

It's called context, o knowledgeable Catholic.

[bustedstr8]

well once again you avoid the discussion. You don't stray far from the playbook do you.

Yep, I was in that thread and I thought that guy did a good job of making you look foolish.

BTW puerile means childish, stupid, immature you dolt.

[jethro]

I am Buddhist. The great thing about Buddhism is that it is open to personal interpretation of the Buddha's teachings. Basically Buddha (Siddhartha) taught the ideals of Buddhism but never took anything away from people who felt that it is different. While I believe in most everything the Buddha spoke of and taught there are many things I have interpreted to my own beliefs.

I do believe in Reincarnation. I do believe in an ultimate attainable heaven which can be reached through good deads and trying to follow the eightfold path and the five precepts of Buddhism. I don't believe in an ultimate God or figure who looks over the universe and all its going ons. I don't not believe in this though. I feel that if we are supposed to understand then it would be very apparent. The Buddha said that the only thing certain in life is that everything is born and everything dies. I believe in soul mates and feel that two people are destined to find each other and be together in every life time. I consider all life precious all the way from a fly to a human being.

When I am back in USA some people think my religion and spirituality is a little nutty but that is fine. The great thing about Buddhism is that a Buddhist will never preach to a person or try to convert a person. Unlike Catholocism and other religions Buddhists generally don't feel like people are right or wrong for believing what they believe. Nobody knows anything for sure and believing anything, whether it is believing in nothing or believing in everything, is better than just not caring at all.


I too am finding many wonderous and personal
ideals in The Buddhas teachings.
Thank you for sharing that, wynn.

[Ramirez]

well once again you avoid the discussion. You don't stray far from the playbook do you.

Yep, I was in that thread and I thought that guy did a good job of making you look foolish.

BTW puerile means childish, stupid, immature you dolt.

No shit? Wow - i didn't know that. In fact, it isn't possible that someone could insult someone else because they're jealous of them and i could play on that to be humourous.

You genius.

What discussion? You said 'if people believe the same stupid shit as loads of other people, it must point to something', i said 'stupidity', ergo it is my view that stupidity is the 'something' it points towards. I mentioned this in my last post, not 'avoiding the discussion'. Why do i have to forever spell out this simple stuff to the people here?

'Good job of making me look foolish' - Only, the opposite. Yeah.

[bustedstr8]

well once again you avoid the discussion. You don't stray far from the playbook do you.

Yep, I was in that thread and I thought that guy did a good job of making you look foolish.

BTW puerile means childish, stupid, immature you dolt.

No shit? Wow - i didn't know that. In fact, it isn't possible that someone could insult someone else because they're jealous of them and i could play on that to be humourous.

You genius.

What discussion? You said 'if people believe the same stupid shit as loads of other people, it must point to something', i said 'stupidity', ergo it is my view that stupidity is the 'something' it points towards. I mentioned this in my last post, not 'avoiding the discussion'. Why do i have to forever spell out this simple stuff to the people here?

'Good job of making me look foolish' - Only, the opposite. Yeah.


You have to spell it out because we are stupid and you are sooo smart. The discusssion is if you believe in god jackass.

I might have 1% respect for you if you had put the entire reason why my idea was stupid. But you didn't do that. You know what? Who cares, I mean seriously I have wasted enough time on this.

I believe what I do,and I respect what ever you or anyone else holds as a belief.

[your 15 minutes are up]

I am Buddhist. The great thing about Buddhism is that it is open to personal interpretation of the Buddha's teachings. Basically Buddha (Siddhartha) taught the ideals of Buddhism but never took anything away from people who felt that it is different. While I believe in most everything the Buddha spoke of and taught there are many things I have interpreted to my own beliefs.

I do believe in Reincarnation. I do believe in an ultimate attainable heaven which can be reached through good deads and trying to follow the eightfold path and the five precepts of Buddhism. I don't believe in an ultimate God or figure who looks over the universe and all its going ons. I don't not believe in this though. I feel that if we are supposed to understand then it would be very apparent. The Buddha said that the only thing certain in life is that everything is born and everything dies. I believe in soul mates and feel that two people are destined to find each other and be together in every life time. I consider all life precious all the way from a fly to a human being.

When I am back in USA some people think my religion and spirituality is a little nutty but that is fine. The great thing about Buddhism is that a Buddhist will never preach to a person or try to convert a person. Unlike Catholocism and other religions Buddhists generally don't feel like people are right or wrong for believing what they believe. Nobody knows anything for sure and believing anything, whether it is believing in nothing or believing in everything, is better than just not caring at all.


I too am finding many wonderous and personal
ideals in The Buddhas teachings.
Thank you for sharing that, wynn.

Buddhism is a religion which I find interesting, also. Particularly due to its peaceful and non confrontational nature.

[wynn]

Ya fighting is definitely wack. I was visiting some of my friends and I was at this bar when some drunk guys were really obnoxious and trying to pick a fight with my friends and I. A part of me wanted to tear the guys face off. At one point when the guy was starting trouble I even had grabbed a big glass to hit the guy with. I found myself thinking about my Buddhism and I told the guy that I was Buddhist and I hate violence and anger. I sought peace and he started calling me "Buddha Boy" trying to entice me. I just ignored him and it felt good to do the right thing.

I don't want to seem like I am some perfect angel. While I aspire to be good always I am still human and I still make a lot of mistakes. I curse sometimes when there is no need, I am weak when my friends peddle alcohol at me, and I make other stupid mistakes. In Buddhism there is no confessions though. You know when you do something wrong and it is ok to error because people are human. The important thing isn't to confess and ask for forgiveness (which is always granted) and move on to make the same mistake again. The important thing is to recognize your errors and try to correct them. I guess as long as any religion can lead a person to becoming better in any way then it is ok with me.

Wickipedia and About.com both have some interesting explanations about Buddhism. Just remember when you read it that Buddhism is open to interpretation so nothing is set in stone. Make it your own and make it perfect for you. Just don't change something you know is the right thing to wrong just so you can continue to do the wrong thing and be called a Buddhist :P

[jethro]

I agree with you on Buddhism being open to interpretation
I understand that if you interpret the text correctly
there is a 'way' or 'path' that may lead you to another level.
I don't expect to become a monk in order to find this path,
but I have already noticed a difference in my life by following
the teachings of Buddha.
It is something I have begun to work on in earnest.

[Briesias]

yes, i choose to believe.

[jeremy]

I agree with you on Buddhism being open to interpretation
I understand that if you interpret the text correctly
there is a 'way' or 'path' that may lead you to another level.
I don't expect to become a monk in order to find this path,
but I have already noticed a difference in my life by following
the teachings of Buddha.
It is something I have begun to work on in earnest.

but buddhist moks kick fucking ass. literally.

[wynn]

I agree with you on Buddhism being open to interpretation
I understand that if you interpret the text correctly
there is a 'way' or 'path' that may lead you to another level.
I don't expect to become a monk in order to find this path,
but I have already noticed a difference in my life by following
the teachings of Buddha.
It is something I have begun to work on in earnest.

but buddhist moks kick fucking ass. literally.

Actually they don't. You have just seen too many kung fu movies.

Jethro the path you are talking about is called the eightfold path. The path is represented in an 8 spoke wheel. Each spoke represents one action to take while walking the path. The circular wheel means that you should continue to exercise each action forever. Basically it is a way of freeing your mind, body and soul from the limitations which are placed on it in this world. Some Buddhists choose to meditate and others don't. The eightfold path doesn't neccessarily mean meditation but just freeing your mind. Buddha said that through the eightfold path and proper meditation that you can achieve enlightenment. There is really no way to explain enlightenment but I guess it is a moment when everything in the world becomes perfectly clear and you can see things for the first time. Both the sites I listed earlier have the eightfold path described on them. An excellent book I read that has a silly name is Buddhism for Idiots :P It is a great beginners guide in Buddhism and can really explain things well. I think it was written by a Zen Buddhist out of California but it has been a while since I read that one.

But ya the eightfold path can help you achieve Enlightenment. If you believe in reincarnation then following the five precepts as best as you can will allow you to leave the cycle of reincarnation on earth and enter heaven. If you choose that reincarnation isn't what you believe in then following the 5 precepts as best you can is good just because if you treat someone well then they will treat others well and hopefully it helps create a more positive environment for everybody. (karma)

Thai people believe that if their son becomes a monk then their family will automatically be granted access to heaven and it ends their cycle of reincarnation. Also in Thailand almost all young men spend some time as a monk before they become a man and start adulthood. It is an honor to be a monk and isn't someone who "kick fucking ass. literally." The King of Thailand was a monk before he took the throne.

[jeremy]

but buddhist moks kick fucking ass. literally.

Actually they don't. You have just seen too many kung fu movies.



well that's funny, because i just watched a documentary and one of the things shown in it was them training and some of the feats they can do.

[OldGravy]

Documentaries are *all* *real*.

[wynn]

So if some small percentage of Buddhist monks practice in some form of martial arts that means that they all "kick fucking ass."

[David Patton]

I find certain things about Buddahism to be interesting, however there are other aspects of it that seem to me to be somewhat off the mark. The idea of reincarnation for instance.

This like the whole "life after death" concept seems arrogant. It seems based on the idea that man is so important that he must have something about him that transends death, because otherwise, he would be like every other living creature on earth.

More logical to me is the idea that you are born, you live your life, you die. If you lived a good life, that is great and you should get some feeling of accomplishment having done that, but you are still dead in the end.

You live your life the way you live it, because that is the way you choose to live it, you can either be proud of what you did with your life or not, but you are still a living creature and in the end you are just dead.

[RodeoHK]

I find certain things about Buddahism to be interesting, however there are other aspects of it that seem to me to be somewhat off the mark. The idea of reincarnation for instance.

This like the whole "life after death" concept seems arrogant. It seems based on the idea that man is so important that he must have something about him that transends death, because otherwise, he would be like every other living creature on earth.

More logical to me is the idea that you are born, you live your life, you die. If you lived a good life, that is great and you should get some feeling of accomplishment having done that, but you are still dead in the end.

You live your life the way you live it, because that is the way you choose to live it, you can either be proud of what you did with your life or not, but you are still a living creature and in the end you are just dead.

I agree. What's the point of working hard in this life, if all you're working towards is another life back on earth?

[wynn]

David a lot of Buddhists believe the exact thing you just said. Not every Buddhist believes in reincarnation. Like I said, Buddhism is open to interpretation and accepts everyones personal views on every issue. There are Buddhist people who believe in Jesus Christ and God above even. Buddhism isn't a religion written on stone tablets it is a spiritual way of life derived from the teachings of the Buddha.

For me man is just like every other living creature on earth. I respect all life and all living creatures the same as I respect you. I treat life with the respect it deserves and in turn I find that life respects me. It is weird but I never get bit by a mosquito and I never have a fly bug me. My father in law told me about this because I was constantly swatting at mosquitos. He told me to respect the mosquito and it in turn will respect me. It is weird but it is true. If a mosquito comes around I just gently show it on its way and it never comes back. Same thing with a fly or any other insect or animal.

My point is that I believe every life at one point in time was a person. We all make mistakes and some of us make bigger mistakes than others. I see life as a level system with human being closest to attaining ultimate heaven. So I try to treat every animal as I would treat my neighbor.

I respect your views on life and reincarnation and they all interest me a lot. Nobody really knows the way life is and the way it ends and begins. That is what is great about Buddhism. I accept everybodys views and ideas with the same respect I accept my own with. We don't know and we aren't supposed to know. I can't say I am right and you are wrong because that wouldn't be true. I can only try my best to do the right things in life and be a good person the best I can. Then some day I will see what happens.

Rodeo the point as I see it is working hard on this life is working hard to attain true heavenly peace in the next life. A life off of earth in heaven which is reserved for the people who truely deserve it.

[Acadia]

David a lot of Buddhists believe the exact thing you just said. Not every Buddhist believes in reincarnation. Like I said, Buddhism is open to interpretation and accepts everyones personal views on every issue. There are Buddhist people who believe in Jesus Christ and God above even. Buddhism isn't a religion written on stone tablets it is a spiritual way of life derived from the teachings of the Buddha.

So it's a religion in the same way that eating only the things you like could be called a diet? I am not insulting, just wondering what the basic core of beliefs are that makes one a Buddhist. I mean, by your explanation above, I could be a Buddhist, but I am not sure that I am. If you posted the core beliefs farther up - please point me to it, and sorry in advance for missing it.

[wynn]

That's the thing there are no core beliefs.

Buddhism is the religion that is called the non-religion. A lot of people have a hard time calling Buddhism a religion because it doesn't attempt to deal with any sort of beliefs. Instead Buddhism trys to deal with a spiritual way of living your life. Buddhism varys from place to place. A lot of people in Thailand believe you can pray to Buddha as a God and present him offerings. A lot of people in Thailand believe in a lot of Buddhist spirits that you have to appease in order to have peace in your home. You see a lot of houses here with little houses that almost look like elaborat birdhouses with gifts and food and water for the spirits. You very well could be a Buddhist.

Basically a Buddhist person is a person who enjoys to involve themselves in the teachings of the Buddha. You don't have to agree with them to be a Buddhist but you should try to take something out of it. There are no rules or commandments or laws. There are precepts you should try to follow but is ok if you error. There is the eightfold path which is good to follow because it frees your mind and body and soul.

Eightfold Path:

1. Right Understanding
2. Right Thought
3. Right Speech
4. Right Action
5. Right Livelihood
6. Right Effort
7. Right Mindfulness
8. Right Concentration


Five Buddhist precepts:

1. To refrain from harming living creatures (killing).
2. To refrain from taking that which is not freely given (stealing).
3. To refrain from sexual misconduct.
4. To refrain from incorrect speech (lying, harsh language, slander).
5. To refrain from intoxicants which lead to loss of mindfulness.

"The historical Buddha is simply one member in the spiritual lineage of Buddhas, which stretches back into the infinite past and forward into the distant horizons of the future."

Buddha taugh the Four Noble Truths:

1. Dukkha: All worldly life is unsatisfactory, disjointed, containing suffering.
2. Samudaya: There is a cause of suffering, which is attachment or desire (tanha) rooted in ignorance.
3. Nirodha: There is an end of suffering, which is Nirvana.
4. Magga: There is a path that leads out of suffering, known as the Noble Eightfold Path.

Basically Buddha (Siddhartha Guatama) taught that we have no answers besides the four noble truths. Buddha never tried to answer if there is a God or a Heaven or a Hell. Buddha taugh the four noble truths and taught that the eightfold path and the five precepts can allow a person to escape these truths in life. Since Buddha didn't try to teach about heaven, hell, or any questions other religions try to answer people have tried to answer them over the years and attach them to Buddhism. That is why from place to place and Buddhist to Buddhist you will find very different answers about questions that have perplexed mankind for ages. That is why Buddhism is open to interpretation. A person uses Buddhism to lead a spiritual life and can interpret these questions they seek answers to however they like. I have answered them how I feel is most likely correct but that is just me. You could be a Buddhist who believes in Christianity. I went to a Catholic school for 12 years and always struggled with having to believe what they say is right because of "faith." I have no problem with a peson who has faith and I am happy for them. I found Buddhism and it allowed me to answer my questions as I see fit based on the teachings of Buddha. I had to step out of my western shoes for a while and think outside the box until I fully came to understand Buddhism. I hope this helps.

Oh, there are 3 different forms of Buddhism that try to give people rules and regulations like Catholicism and other religions. They are called Theravada Buddhism, Mahayana Buddhism and Vajrayana Buddhism. If someone looks for rules and classification then they can find it in one of these 3 branches. I try not to follow any one set of rules but instead do what I feel is right.

Buddhism isn't about believing anything. Instead it is more about taking care of what we all know to be true in this life and living a spiritual peaceful life. The Buddha said that one thing is true. We all are born and we all will die. When we are supposed to have our questions answered they will be answered for us. Until then we should take care of what we know to be true. Buddhism is a sort of guideline to doing that.

[Acadia]

Seems like the basic precepts are no different than most other religions, except that the others all have some sort of consequence for failure built in, as well as more things that were based more on actually keeping their population alive and together when such things were a factor. Interesting stuff. Thanks for it.

[that's_hot]

:?: (Acadia)

First of all - this theory is based on the Old and New testaments (the Catholic versions, not the ones carved up by the protestants) and Paradise Lost.
Ok - so the Catholic Bible has the most complete Book of Genesis. It has both creation stories in it. The one where God made the waters recede, creating the Earth, as well as the one where He made it rain, thus creating the Earth. The Protestants took one out, cause you can't be a creationist if there are two stories.

I believe protestants have both stories too, but look at them as the same story told from a different perspective :?: . So what do you mean with "carved up"?

But Lucifer said: Non Serviam - and god got pissed. He kicked him and all his buddies out of Heaven and into Hell. But he had to MAKE hell. So what would hell have been?

Lucifer didn't only not want to serve God, he wanted to take His place

So anyway - he kicked them out for EXERCISING free will. They always had it - but they never used it. But god judged them by a higher standard, cause they were close to the source, and it was sort of like a child rebelling against his parents (remember that one of the commandments is honor your father and mother).


I believe ALL the angels exercised free will, but some of them chose to follow the wrong path.

OK - so the final rundown is this.

God made our universe out of the fallen angels - cause he put them in a place which was not heaven - and we can all agree that this is not heaven. We all have free will - and that really means we have the ability to NOT be selfish. We have the ability to NOT hurt others. But most times, being selfish is quicker and easier.

So - why are we here? Cause god is all merciful, and we are performing Satan's penance. We are all the fallen angel, every one of us.

The universe keeps expanding - infinitely. And all we have is matter and energy. And energy's purest form is light. Eventually, the HEAT (which makes light) will be gone from the universe. Things will still be moving - but it will be dark. Completely dark.

When that occurs, Lucifer's penance will be over. And everything will be back to god. The only way god can be faithful to himself is to let satan have another chance. We are it.

Its why being good is harder than being shitty, but feels better.


where did you get this from?

[MissKiKi]

yes. i believe in god :)

[DallasTT]

Uh yeah me to. My GF is a nurse she says most that say they don't belive are praying before they die.

[MissKiKi]

Uh yeah me to. My GF is a nurse she says most that say they don't belive are praying before they die.


hmmm interesting :?

[Superficial]

I am an atheist; I strongly deny that there is god. I believe in a determenistic universe, that man is a machine and that in the last 100-50,000 years man evolved to be able to comprehend what is affecting him, and became a problem solver, capable of viewing the universe abstractly, therefore treating everyrything as a problem. I can't explain what the soul is because I feel that man created it to deal with the fact that he has become different to the animals, to everything else on this planet, explaining what doesn't exist is impossible.


And yet, I believe in God.



I believe that there is a God who is all powerful, that his son came to us, died for our sins and sits at his right hand in Heaven.



This puzzled me for a long time. I'm only now getting to grips with it. Because you see, it's a little hard to argue with your brain, it's like opening the box your in from the outside.

I absolutely disagree with huge chunks of the Bible; Kings by and large is complete lies, Gospel truth isn't, Revelations is fucking acid. It is in all honesty CRAP. It's worse than crap, it's full of incest, murder, and discrimnation, because it is basically Aesops fables written by fairly dumb shepards in the desert, trying to keep some semblence of rule for their tribe.

No, the fact is that it is the creator god, that is the sexy bread and butter of Christianity. The idea that God is the ultimate good and the idea of an ultimate good, and not only this but that good is therefore the cause and unity within the universe, is the idea not of god but of a man. One man; probably the most influential man who ever lived.

Plato.

What? Where's JC? Fuck him, borderline Buddhist who's teachings
if properly converted would have been another sutra. And not a good one. The real geniuses were the Apostles who wrapped in the Philosphies of Plato with the sexy sweetness of Buddha, combining the two most enlightened thinkers of the time. In short we have a universe that we must care for, and that goodness breeds goodness, combined with the awesomeness that the universe has a plan for us, and put us here for a reason.

Faith is not religion, Faith is hope, pure and simple. And it is hope against existential dread, because what man can't get over (and at some base level I can't get over, try as I might) that we are organic matter, that has been cursed with the ability to reason by a cold and uncaring universe.

[thebaldwin]

amen to that. but not in the usual Amen kind of way. Umm.

What he said makes sense^^^^^^^^

Even for an irishman :wink:

[Emotion Mask]

Plato? Plato couldn't touch Socrates.

[Superficial]

All of Socrates writings were written by Plato twenty years after Socrates died... Socrates is a lot of Plato.


Plato is the ultimate head nodder when you read his books, everything makes sense, becasue by and large what we regard as sense is what Plato thought made sense.

Since the enlightenment there have been cracks appearing though, and I mean in what we think makes sense, not Plato.

[jethro]

What? Where's JC? Fuck him, borderline Buddhist who's teachings
if properly converted would have been another sutra. And not a good one. The real geniuses were the Apostles who wrapped in the Philosphies of Plato with the sexy sweetness of Buddha, combining the two most enlightened thinkers of the time. In short we have a universe that we must care for, and that goodness breeds goodness, combined with the awesomeness that the universe has a plan for us, and put us here for a reason.

Faith is not religion, Faith is hope, pure and simple. And it is hope against existential dread, because what man can't get over (and at some base level I can't get over, try as I might) that we are organic matter, that has been cursed with the ability to reason by a cold and uncaring universe.

This part is very interesting.

[Mills]

http://www.party49ers.com/photos/fullsize/175395.jpg

[shanana]

noble lie

[jjcool]

...because what man can't get over (and at some base level I can't get over, try as I might) that we are organic matter, that has been cursed with the ability to reason by a cold and uncaring universe.

I had already covered this point in my sig.

[Don Logan]

I am not saying that you religious folk are alluding to this. I just do not think you need religion in order to do the right thing.

[wynn]

I am not saying that you religious folk are alluding to this. I just do not think you need religion in order to do the right thing.

I don't think people need religion to do the right thing but I think people use religion as a reason to do the right thing.

Catholics instill a sense of fear into children of hell and sins to do the right thing from a very young age. They use religion as a way to make people feel that doing the right thing is what has to be done instead of what needs to be done. Now not all Catholics do this but a lot of them do. I used them as an example because they tried to do that to me.

[ravioli]

this one time i was at the beach with my friend and these two girls both in pink tank tops came up to us from some catholic/christian college and were like "hey guys...mind if we ask u some questions on spirituality"...ah crap.

so i sat and listened and busted out some philo crap and somehow i was like "yanno, sometimes im sitting in traffic and just think....this is like a huge ant farm. How are we any different than just a bunch of ants walking around??"

and one girl is like "well...ants dont have souls"

so wtf is that.

I dont know if its related....

[MiraQueFancy]

yes

[wynn]

I believe ants and every other living creature has souls.

The thing that drives me crazy about those beach preachers etc. etc. is that they refuse to admit they could be wrong. I fully admit my beliefs could be wrong but I am pretty certain I am correct. But you never know. If we were supposed to know 100% it would be dreadfully apparent to us. Just because some hippie guy said he was the son of God hardly makes it dreafully apparent to me.

[jethro]

I believe ants and every other living creature has souls.

The thing that drives me crazy about those beach preachers etc. etc. is that they refuse to admit they could be wrong. I fully admit my beliefs could be wrong but I am pretty certain I am correct. But you never know. If we were supposed to know 100% it would be dreadfully apparent to us. Just because some hippie guy said he was the son of God hardly makes it dreafully apparent to me.


wynn, you are one of my favorite posters. :)

[bustedstr8]

I see the irony in the following:

-Many who post trample on Christianity while complaining about how Christianity tramples on them or their sense of identity, and the fact that they want to practice in their own manner.Don't most Christians want the same?


-It is perfectly acceptable to put your life/sanity/direction into the hands of: a shrink, a pharmacist, a support group and still be considered "normal". But those who put the same things in the hands of God or their church are "religious nuts"


Maybe I am the crazy one here.

[that's_hot]

I believe ants and every other living creature has souls.

The thing that drives me crazy about those beach preachers etc. etc. is that they refuse to admit they could be wrong. I fully admit my beliefs could be wrong but I am pretty certain I am correct. But you never know. If we were supposed to know 100% it would be dreadfully apparent to us. Just because some hippie guy said he was the son of God hardly makes it dreafully apparent to me.

See the great thing about the truth is that it makes everything else that doesn't agree with it a lie.
seriously though, I see what you mean, but you must also look at it from another perspective. Christianity is a religion were you're either in or out. If you doubt its truth you're out.
God came to earth and was tortured and killed for me, and everyone else, to have a chance to be saved. For a second, imagine what I'm telling you is true. The "oh, that's amazing, but hey, it could be a complete lie" sounds pretty vulgar considering that, doesn't it? That's why christians NEVAH think we could be wrong. Sure there's always these moments were you go: "hm..what if...."Because, let's face it, believing in God goes against everything the world has teached us since the day we were born. But just because I think other religions aren't right, doesn't mean I don't respect the people who believe they are, or that I think I'm better than them in any way. I just think they're wrong. I'm sure a lot of people think I'm wrong, but I don't care at all.
Oh, and what all these christians... uh, "beach preachers", want when they talk to you is to share their treasure, whether you believe it's true or not. And if they didn't, you all would all be complaining aswell, on how selfish they are for keeping it secret, even if you think it's bull.
and also,this post is way too long

[bustedstr8]

I believe ants and every other living creature has souls.

The thing that drives me crazy about those beach preachers etc. etc. is that they refuse to admit they could be wrong. I fully admit my beliefs could be wrong but I am pretty certain I am correct. But you never know. If we were supposed to know 100% it would be dreadfully apparent to us. Just because some hippie guy said he was the son of God hardly makes it dreafully apparent to me.

See the great thing about the truth is that it makes everything else that doesn't agree with it a lie.
seriously though, I see what you mean, but you must also look at it from another perspective. Christianity is a religion were you're either in or out. If you doubt its truth you're out.
God came to earth and was tortured and killed for me, and everyone else, to have a chance to be saved. For a second, imagine what I'm telling you is true. The "oh, that's amazing, but hey, it could be a complete lie" sounds pretty vulgar considering that, doesn't it? That's why christians NEVAH think we could be wrong. Sure there's always these moments were you go: "hm..what if...."Because, let's face it, believing in God goes against everything the world has teached us since the day we were born. But just because I think other religions aren't right, doesn't mean I don't respect the people who believe they are, or that I think I'm better than them in any way. I just think they're wrong. I'm sure a lot of people think I'm wrong, but I don't care at all.
Oh, and what all these christians... uh, "beach preachers", want when they talk to you is to share their treasure, whether you believe it's true or not. And if they didn't, you all would all be complaining aswell, on how selfish they are for keeping it secret, even if you think it's bull.
and also,this post is way too long


Great post. I am glad that I am not the only Christian here

[BizBoy]

This is an outstanding thread! Thank you all

[jethro]

This is an outstanding thread! Thank you all

I agree.

[wynn]

See the great thing about the truth is that it makes everything else that doesn't agree with it a lie.
seriously though, I see what you mean, but you must also look at it from another perspective. Christianity is a religion were you're either in or out. If you doubt its truth you're out.
God came to earth and was tortured and killed for me, and everyone else, to have a chance to be saved. For a second, imagine what I'm telling you is true. The "oh, that's amazing, but hey, it could be a complete lie" sounds pretty vulgar considering that, doesn't it? That's why christians NEVAH think we could be wrong. Sure there's always these moments were you go: "hm..what if...."Because, let's face it, believing in God goes against everything the world has teached us since the day we were born. But just because I think other religions aren't right, doesn't mean I don't respect the people who believe they are, or that I think I'm better than them in any way. I just think they're wrong. I'm sure a lot of people think I'm wrong, but I don't care at all.
Oh, and what all these christians... uh, "beach preachers", want when they talk to you is to share their treasure, whether y